Please fuck off. Let Tim Walz run
Please don’t.
nah, let her.
it’s time they had a proper third party down there anyways, the democrats are fucking useless
I agree the Democrats are useless, but the only time in modern history a third party has gotten any measurable percentage of the popular vote is when Ross Perot ran as an independent and got 19%.
Teddy Roosevelt got 27% in 1912 with the Bull Moose party. Not sure if that counts as modern history.
It’s true that a third party candidate would be a major long shot but fuck it, what do we have to lose?
I stand corrected.
What do we stand to lose? Try fucking everything, when the republicans easily win against a fractured DNC and America slips even further into fascism.
But the DNC is already entirely ineffective. We are already losing every single time we vote for either major party. Even when the Dems are in office, they appear incapable or unwilling to accomplish meaningful progressive political objectives, so we are slipping further into fascism anyway, no?
This has been the status quo for generations already, how long does it have to continue before we cut our losses and make a risky gambit? I just don’t understand what you think the DNC is protecting us from, because in my view they are also part of the problem.
Fuck it, let her. She had to drop out of the 2020 primary before voting started because she was on track to lose every single state, and she clearly hasn’t become more electable since then. All she could possibly do is siphon some votes and donor money off Newsom or Buttigieg. If that’s what she wants to do, I fully support that.
You inspired people not to vote. Go away.
I will not vote again for Kamala Harris, nor for any other ordinary, boring, middle-of-the-road Democrat. “Vote blue no matter who” brought us to this point, where Democrats are so spineless and compromised, only a handful of elected Dems are willing to oppose fascism. Never again, for me. Give me a candidate worth voting for — that’s the only way to get my vote.
Let’s remove the dictator first, then we can work on the Party. Harris is a bad choice either way.
Historically, the first step in removing the dictator is letting the fake controlled opposition party burn to the ground. Voting in corporate Dems is no different than voting for the fake opposition parties the Soviet dictators used to let run so they could brag about getting 99% of the vote.
We already tried your strategy, and it failed. We got some short-term wins, but at the cost of long-term defeat. In 2020, we followed your approach. We picked the useless corporate centrist because we saw him as more ‘electable’ and because we needed to get Trump out of office. And of course, what everyone on the left predicted would happen, happened. The centrist did very little to actually change the conditions that lead to Trump in the first place, and predictably, Trump won again with an even larger margin.
You need to start looking beyond just the election in front of you. Short-term thinking is what has got us into this mess. We’re so unwilling to take a short-term loss that we make short-sighted decisions on “electability” that ultimately end up losing us elections in both the short and long term.
Your strategy results in Kamala winning in 2028 and Steven Miller becoming president in 2032.
So if 2028 rolls around and you’re presented with a ballot with the choices “Donald Trump” and “Kamala Harris” on it for president, you’ll not vote for Kamala Harris?
If he’s on the ballot again then it’s all over anyway. That would be a third term and would need to be in a war time. So, if he’s on the ballot in 28’, we either have a war happening on our soil or, he’s going full traitor and the elections will be for nothing more than show.
As far as I’m aware there’s no “wartime” exemption from the term limit.
Th real question is, can he declare martial law to prevent or delay the 2028 elections thus extending his second term indefinitely?
There is no constitutional basis for moving the date of elections under any circumstances. Elections went on as normal during the Civil War and WWII, there’s absolutely no legal, constitutional or moral excuse for cancelling or delaying them.
While everything you say is mostly* true, it really doesn’t matter. Martial law gives the executive wide and indeterminate decision making.
WWII was not an insurrection so it was not grounds for martial law. The Civil War was seen as an international conflict initially and not an internal insurrection, but it becomes more complicated as it goes on. The 1807 Insurrection Act gives the president a lot of power. Trump has already postured that he can use it to deal with protests in Portland, OR.
* I say mostly true because Congress is granted the ability to determine when elections will happen.
Did I stutter?
You might as well have.
JFC don’t. We don’t even want to hear you. I would rather have AOC as a choice over you.
you thought kamala was bad? AOC would TANNKKK the dems
I hate how true this is. She’s popular with Millennials but that’s about it. The vast majority of democrat voters prefer conservative establishment candidates, and they think she’s too extreme.
Where is this bullshit coming from? Conservative establishment candidates have been what keeps losing, if they’re not already an incumbent.
AOC would be a stellar choice IMO, but 90% of the 1% would probably be against her, and that’s about half of all the money in USA.
Social democracies in Scandinavia work DESPITE being undermined by the rich, so the political shrewdness and tenacity that would be required of her is insane. She would need a lot of backup from the population, and the population will need patience.Because rebuilding the institutions in USA to their former standard is already a lot of work, but rebuilding them to the standard of a proper social democracy is something USA has never seen before, and will be very difficult.
For starters it requires USA to become an actual democracy instead of the dysfunctional democracy that USA many Americans praise as divine and sent from heaven. A multi party system is a must for true democracy, and until USA has at least 8 parties represented in congress, it is not really a functioning democracy at all.Hey, keep away from AOC, we need her to take over Chuck’s Senate seat. The rest of you can have her after a term or three, she’ll still be plenty young enough to run, and maybe by then the country will be ready to vote for a woman for President…
From an outsider perspective, I think unless you get AOC now there’s not going to be much of a country left for another round sometime later… Bernie has spent his whole life with “maybe on the next one”. It will never be on the next one.
I say this as someone who loves AOC and what she does…
If AOC runs, she will lose.
That’s just the state of the nation right now. The only thing America hates more than women is a progressive. The culture of the country right now is way too volatile. The country just isn’t ready for a female president. Not because a woman can’t do it… but because the country is way too far gone with sexism and misogyny.
It was a long shot when Hillary ran, it was long shot when Kamala ran. If you think it’s not a long shot now after the MAGA crowd has been systematically destroying everything… and you want to run a Berniecrat woman? At this time? In this country?
I think you are right, and I also think it would be better for USA to “normalize” and find its center first.
Then AOC will have better chances of actually accomplishing something.Now we can only hope (as a foreigner) that USA will normalize, and not become a dictatorship.
who is in her circle telling her that this is a good idea? Does she not have any close friends who can speak plainly to her?
You would think having lost to an actual piece of shit would be enough of a reality check. Just stop… ffs. The best thing Kamala can do is fade into obscurity like Al Gore.
Holy fuck, listen I plugged my nose and voted for her last time just like I did with Hillary and Biden, but I am absolutely not voting for Harris a second time. If that happens, the only “enabler” is the Democratic establishment and I don’t want to fucking hear “vote blue no matter who” after all this Mamdani shit. Stupid god damn fucking liberals, Jesus Christ.
/ rant
Your rant should include an apology to the rest of us.
For what?
Who the fuck knows, it’s all in that annoying little fucker’s username lol. Maybe when he rolls off the dive bar floor tomorrow morning he can tell us.
I’d imagine they’re saying that not voting for Kamala is, in effect, not voting AGAINST the GOP.
So in that case, I think they mean the apology would be to everyone for allowing the GOP to win again.
Just explaining what I think they’re saying, not saying I agree or disagree with that sentiment.
I actually interpreted it as the opposite: that the choice to vote for Kamala and those other shitty Dems in the past was what got us here. Which is even stupider, but I was hoping to get it straight from the horse’s mouth tbh.
Really. Any interpretation is dumb. It’s a dumb comment.
whats wrong with biden? he was a ok guy. hope hes doing well.
He didn’t fight for what he needed to, and lead us straight to where we are.
Please fucking don’t
You guys don’t understand, she lost because people forgot how bad trump was, this time people will fall in line
No one forgot how bad Trump was, most people just watch fox news
I love how everybody is assuming that there will be a “next election”. I’m not sure that’s guaranteed. Except, maybe, in the way that Russia still has elections.
I mean, I know you can be too alarmist about things, but there’s a very clear and obvious direction of travel in the US right now.
I don’t disagree with you, but I feel like people jump to that scenario without describing the steps to get there. How do you see unfolding? How do different opposition groups respond such as the DNC? What about blue states? How does the administration handle it without losing popular consensus? Does it even matter? If they use the military, how do they get the military stay the path when the populous begins to reject their intervention?
How do you see unfolding?
Martial law to respond to ice agents being killed or police turning against them.
They’re already trying to instigate this.
How do different opposition groups respond such as the DNC?
“The Supreme Court says it’s ok, so our hands are tied, but we’re very upset.”
They already have the Supreme Court on their team.
What about blue states?
Governors will either roll over or start a hot civil war.
Which do you think they’ll choose?
How does the administration handle it without losing popular consensus?
By arresting and murdering protesters.
They’ve already identified vague groups like antifa as domestic terrorists.
If they use the military, how do they get the military stay the path when the populous begins to reject their intervention?
If you give ICE a large enough budget, they can act as a new military. And by firing non-loyal brass for not being able to do enough pushups and replacing them with loyalists, you can keep the military from intervening under the guise of neutrality.
The Courts are, as you noted, already in line with or an ineffective hedge against the administration. I think there are other opposition groups. I suspect there are more than a few in the military who are willing to resist. Discounting military leaders has been the downfall of many rebellions.
Replacing personelle isn’t as easy as just putting someone loyal into the position. Execution requires competency and the counter elites don’t have experience to run things effectively save a few notable exceptions. They seem best suited to posturing, making grand proclamations, and breaking things. This is fine when you’re trying to destroy the old order, but building one is a lot harder.
By arresting and murdering protesters.
I’m skeptical they can do this en mass without emboldening resistance at first. Your need a well staffed group of people to deal with this in hundreds of sites and willing to kill people. For everything the MAGA movement has done, they’ve never given a positivist vision for the future. Which is to say, what future are we creating that makes it worth killing people.
None of my critiques should be read as they can’t do it. Rather, these are strategic points at which interference could undermine their efforts.
As for blue states, I think most will gesture towards being offended greatly, but fail to create an effective opposition. I do think a couple will attempt a hot resistance. And if, say, a Pacific front opens, this could be difficult to deal with. Furthermore, pockets of resistence within red states will be very, very difficult to stamp out. Our large geography makes it very difficult to command and control.
I don’t think ICE, even as well funded as they are, have the trained pedosnelle or institutions to replicate anything like a military force. Hell, out military isn’t even well designed to be an effective occupation force.
Trump is sending “election observers” to California because of prop 50 and to New York because of Mamdani. It’s reasonable to be very concerned about future election integrity. ICE has a larger budget than the Marines. They’ve openly ignored courts. They have fully abandoned the rule of law.
Like I said, I don’t disagree that this is a possibility, but I’m curious how people see it unfolding. I like to leverage other minds to develop my thinking.
They just told you how they see it unfolding though.
The only thing they said was they are sending election observers. How does that answer any of the very valid questions I asked?
Doomerism helps nothing
Doomerism would be if there were an “…and therefore it’s pointless doing anything” at the end.
I’d say the thing that helps nothing is a casual assumption of “if we campaign well enough, then we’ll win the next election and everything will be fine”, as opposed to “we are sleepwalking into a fascist dictatorship and we need to take that seriously”.
You don’t need to spell out that last bit for it to have the same effect, as their whole attitude implies it
I’ve seen no attitude in this thread which suggests that people are doing anything other than assuming that the next US presidential election will happen and be business as usual.
One need only look at the start of this very thread to be proven wrong about that… it’s almost as if my comment on the doomerism was not spawned from nothing.
The correct word would have been “threatens”
Please fuck off. Let Tim Waltz run
Honestly? Fuck it. Corporate Dems are pushing Newsom hard; I’d love to see Kamala wrestle with being abandoned by everyone she gave up any morals for.
Ensure we have no chance of winning
I will splinter the two party system into a thousand little pieces. Mark my words.
That’s every top-level post above mine. Which suggests to you that the poster is concerned about Trump subverting or cancelling the election to finalise installing himself as a dictator?
I was talking about YOURS. Holy shit
This is coming from a Californian: I am skeptical, purely in terms of political advantage, that it is a good idea for the Democrats to run a California politician for the presidential slot in 2028 unless they are absolutely extraordinary. Two major potential Democratic 2028 nominees, Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris, are both out of California.
California is going to vote for the Democratic candidate regardless of who it is. If the Democrats nominate a dead orangutan, California will vote for it. It’s like the Republicans nominating the governor of Utah. (Actually, my understanding is that the current governor of Utah is kind of a decent guy, has been one of the people tamping down on divisiveness, but still, Republicans just aren’t getting a geographic benefit out of nominating him).
I’d be more inclined to think that someone like Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, would do well in the general election. She’s managed to win over voters in the Midwest, which have been swing states in recent elections, which is what the Democrats might actually not win in 2028. Biden was out of Pennsylvania.
IIRC from past reading, predictions are that 2028 will see some states further in the southeast might becoming swing states; it’s not as if the set of swing states are fixed. But I am confident that California will not be among the 2028 swing states short of a cataclysmic political upheaval in the next three years.
All that, of course, is entirely disregarding their policies.
Fuck Whitmer. She’s for the car companies and not for the people. She puts on a show but does nothing of substance.
Run Ocasio-Cortez
This wreaks of the centrism “common sense” that keeps losing us elections. It’s built on the assumption that moderates are innately more electable, while history has shown this is anything but the case. It’s a kind of magical thinking completely divorced from reality.
The flaw in this thinking is that it assumes that there is a large population of political moderates waiting to be appealed to. This is what’s cost Democrats the working class - abandoning workers rights and benefits in the hope of wooing suburban conservatives. And it’s failed election after election.
It fails because there aren’t actually very many true moderates. If you poll people who are politically unaligned, it’s not that they’re unaligned because they lie right between the parties. They’re unaligned because their politics simply don’t match to the existing partisan alignment. Think someone that is pro-gun rights but also supports Medicare for All.
Running performative centrists doesn’t do anything to appeal to these voters, it just makes your candidate come off as inauthentic. Some issues just don’t have reasonable compromises on them. If one party wants to greatly restrict the civil rights of some minority group, taking the centrist position of only restricting their rights a little bit still makes you look like a monster to anyone with a conscience.
This is why centrists fail. Almost no one actually had beliefs that are in the dead middle of the political spectrum. Appealing to these mythical voters is a strategy that fails again and again.
What you are ignoring is that Newsom has a key characteristic that both Harris and Whitmer lack: a penis. If anything has been made clear to me over the past 10 years, it’s that too many Americans view having a penis as a requirement to be President.
if you honestly think a penis is why hillary or harris lost than you are simply out of touch with the majority of america.
people didn’t vote for harris…they voted waltz, the country is tired of these wolves in sheeps clothing. harris drug down the campaign when she flipflopped on universal healthcare a week in, she became “just more of the same” instantly.
it’s why so much of the country votes republican, not abject bigotry and hatred (though there is a large contingent of that)…they vote republican because they know republicans are slimy pieces of shit that can be relied on to cause as much pain as possible, it makes them predictable and by extension makes protecting you and yours easier.
when dems are in charge you have to do a deep dive into everyone’s past, to see if they’re a snake or not. while republicans are either easy to please/step around/ignore (if you have the privilege to do those things) because they’re so open and proud in their corruption
not saying it’s right, just laying it out there as to why most of the country votes for wm over some dem.
obama won because he promised Hope and Change…then showed just how much of a lie that campaign was over his two terms. no democrat will win the popular vote again unless it’s a safe assumption they’re a pushover (biden) or america can trust they’re actually honest about pushing for change (waltz).
the country is tired of playing this stupid fucking game, everyone knows it by now…but if you have to choose between a devil you know vs. one you don’t the choice is easy for most.
if you think simple sexism wasn’t a major factor for a sizable portion of America, my friend, you’re out of touch.
You need to go out to the country/mountain areas. I was out there when Hillary was running. My family are all red voters. Hell, my grandmother told me she would never vote for a woman as president. Paraphrasing her “Women are too emotional and what about once a month with hormones”. Yes, that’s a driving factor in A LOT of rural voters. Simple sexism.
If sexism wasn’t a major factor in America, we wouldn’t have the massive incel problem we have. We wouldn’t have the constant “woke feminism” backlash bullshit.
Pretending America isn’t sexist and isn’t contributing reasion why Hillary/Kamala lost is willfully ignorant.
Those people already weren’t going to vote for a Democrat…women are winning high ranking positions in what most people would consider much more culturally machismo-prominent cultures than the US
If conservatives in Britain can elect a woman as the leader of their country in the 1980s, then the US can elect a woman in the 2020s. We have a problem with misogyny, but I refuse to believe that even though enough conservative Britains could overcome their prejudice to get a woman elected in the 1980s, progressives in the US can’t somehow manage it in the 2020s.
Reality check. A few points swing would have resulted in Hillary of Kamala winning. These were close elections. I’m sure sexism was a factor, but their unpopular policies and corporate fakery were what really killed them.
As someone who voted for her, she can fuck off.
Yes we don’t need to know this, she flopped so hard against a convicted felon.
I completely wish she won last election… but there’s no way we’re taking a risk on her again.
I’m not a huge fan of Newsom, but at least he’s been loudly attacking this current administration. Maybe she has too, but I don’t hear from her in my news cycles.
Unless some progressive comes out and surprises everyone, Newsom will likely be my choice.
Do not pre comply with the bullshit autocrat wannabe Newsom being shoved down our throats.
He’s literally mimicking Trump and so many fucking stupid Dem voters are falling for the same thing we make fun of Republicans for.
Newsom is an opportunistic snake and will say whatever he needs to to get elected and then do absolutely whatever he wants and none of it will help you. He is not better than Trump, he IS Trump, for a different audience with different motivations.
I think Newsom is like a Republican from the 70s, but comparing him to Trump like that is insane. We need to get out of this mess and a moderate is FAR better than anything the Republicans can push out.
I’ll likely vote for the progressive in the primaries, but if Newsom is the candidate it’s better than the alternatives.
Oh, he’ll be moderate, you think? Good luck with that. You think they pulled him out of a time machine from the 70s? They didn’t. He’s a product of the current political situation, he’s PART of the current political situation, he’s in the same orbits as all these people and he’s got the same people orbiting around him. If you think he’s going to move things back to the center I don’t think you understand how broken things really are. They’ve been broken for a long time, and they’re not broken in a repairable way. He’s not your champion, he’s not going to save you. You think voting for him represents “trying” to fix the problems but you’re just being led astray by organizations and powers that don’t give a fuck about any of us and are not motivated by anything we care about.
Okay, well you can vote for Vance then.
I understand what he is.
But compared to the shit show we have now… unless we get a progressive in there, what other choice do we have? Not voting? Going third party so that Repugs win again?
I don’t accept the premise that he is progressive in any meaningful way but you’re entitled to your opinion.
What other choice will there be in the next election? I don’t know, it’s too early to say. Maybe there won’t be another choice, but I think there will be plenty of interesting choices, which one is ideal is again much too early to call and you’re right we probably won’t achieve the ideal.
All I’m trying to say is, don’t trust him, and whatever ends up happening, whether he’s elected or not, don’t stop there. Job not done. He’s not going to fix this, he’s not a solution. More work needs to be done, so much more, by all of us. People need to learn civic responsibility again and start to participate in the democratic process beyond just showing up to vote. That means education, starting by educating ourselves first, which isn’t easy and it is being made harder every day. Then we can start to make progress towards unifying people, finding common ground, finding the things we can at least all agree on even if we don’t agree with the best way to do them, and starting to undo the merciless division that has been done to us. That also means outreach, that means activism, that means organizing, that means finding ways to change the system. Not all of them will be pretty. It might mean civil disobedience. It might mean violence. It might mean civil war. I don’t have a crystal ball to see what the future holds, all I know is that everyone who cares about the future of democracy in any way, shape, form or place, needs to start adjusting to the now hopefully clearly evident reality; it is not a given, we need to fight for it, and fight with everything we have, because there is clearly a lot stacked against us. But it does not mean we cannot win. In fact we must win, eventually. There is no other choice.
Stop fucking acting like newsom has already won the primary for starters. Also maybe don’t make people that have been targeted by newsom feel like they will still be under the boot if you dont want the dems to loose again.
*lose
So no actual response? People like you are the reason dems keep losing.
This is the state of American Democratic politics these days. If the candidate is not exactly what you want, then they’re Satan incarnate and they might as well let the Republicans win.
the acrual Left has made massive gains since Trump took the stage, hard not to agree that accelerationism might have been what we needed
