cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/53250107
Police confirmed they had responded to a report of “criminal mischief involving a robot” on the 1200 block of Filbert Street around 1:16 p.m. on Wednesday. A woman on the scene ignored “multiple commands” to move, they said, resulting in a criminal violation notice for disorderly conduct.
Uber declined to comment.
Marvin, who plans to contest the charge on the grounds of her First Amendment right to protest, has been undeterred by the arrest. She plans to continue blocking Uber Eats robots and chatting with curious passersby who ask what she’s doing.
“It allows me to talk to people about what’s going on,” she said. “It’s always very interesting conversations that we have, and I think it’s good to have those kinds of conversations in public space.”
I guess no one gives a F for the person waiting for their food in this post.
Why wasn’t uber arrested for obstructing this woman’s path with their shitty robot?
This is basically the start of the counter to automation. We still tell fables about people who stood againt the devaluation of workers like this.
All hail forced labor? The only “value” AI strip away is a value stamped on the top of your head derived from capitalism. Flipping burgers at McDonalds has value, but it’s no first choice, and the value isn’t extracted by the burger flipper. It’s extracted by the top as the labor is exploited.
If anything, I’m hoping AI is a fuck you to the current broken, down hill rolling system. The world will never be rid of exploitation, but we can point the harm at machines instead.
If anything, I’m hoping AI is a fuck you to the current broken, down hill rolling system.
lol, well, considering the system is currently licking AI’s nasty little clit like there’s no tomorrow… I just don’t AI is going to do whatever it is you think it’s going to do, lol.
You’ve been drinking too much cool aid.
No, just extrapolating out where we’re headed.
Next thing to do, put a VR headset on it, and let it take a magical mystery tour!
Has it been set illegal to disobey “multiple commands” of a privately owned robot?
When police say somebody ignored commands, they mean from them. They don’t get paid to enforce robot commands.
But can they order you to move because you are standing in the way of a robot? Disobeying an order is arrestable, fair enough. Blocking a person is probably illegal (depending on how it’s done). So I’m uncertain of the activity necessary to block such a robot. Just standing straight up an down in front of it sounds legal. Actively and continuously stepping in front of it to block it at least sounds worse. But how do you enforce this? What if a dog blocks or attacks a robot? What are robot/corporations rights?
What if a dog blocks or attacks a robot?
Cops love to kill dogs.
It has nothing to do with robots having rights - which they don’t. It’s about deliberately obstructing what another person is doing. Calling it “just standing straight up an down” doesn’t change that, any more than if you refused to make way for somebody pushing a cumbersome shopping cart. How do you enforce this? Well, in this example the cops tried to tell the woman to move along, and arrested her when she refused. If a dog damages property you can sue the dog owner. If you have more questions please look them up yourself.
deleted by creator
Of course it changes that. No where in time or space on earth have there been autonomous deliveries moving about in the same space as you or me. So the interesting philosophical and practical question is “who has the right of way”. And as you say - “deliberately obstructing what another person is doing” when there is no person being obstructed. Someone may if may not be waiting. If I was on the receiving end of that meal, I would expect another drone delivering my food. Just as I expect packages to be rerouted if a delivery truck has a break down.
So the answer is “no one knows right now”. Or to be presice, “no one, and especially not you, knows right now. And I for one will find it interesting when it is solved. Just not from you”.
If you want more answers, please go look them up you yourselves - don’t waste my or others time posting it here.
Police get a lot of leeway when telling people to move. I suspect her blocking the robot, may be considered a public nuisance (like blocking traffic or a sidewalk). Her ingore a lawful command to move = jail.
note: this is not support of the robots, just indicating the fact that they are probably allowed under current laws.
“Public nuisance” is definted as an illegal act, condition or thing that interferes with the rights of the general public.
Robots are not members of the general public, and have no rights.
It’s not the rights of the robot in question. You’re legally allowed to get delivery, she is stopping you from receiving that delivery.
Should have just built a blocking robot to do it… Or like… A crate.
Just put a garbage bag over it, then smack it with a tire iron.
If you can block bots online, why can’t you block them in the physical world?
Because robots in the physical world are legal, and in this case using public sidewalks. Online bots are violating terms of service as defined by the human owners of websites.
robots in the physical world are legal
They are not explicitly illegal. That doesn’t mean they or their owners have rights that supersede those of the general public.
Cars and motorcycles aren’t allowed on sidewalks. What makes those robots so special that you think they should be allowed to occupy an already crowded and very definitely human space?
They don’t have to be special, they just have to be allowed, which depends on local laws that restrict their weight, speed, and other things. This whole line of argument misses my point that giving workers a share of the benefits of innovation would be better than treating the innovations as the enemy.
They don’t have to be special, they just have to be allowed, which depends on local laws that restrict their weight, speed, and other things.
This is your opinion and I disagree. They’re free to sort it out with the heavy machinery on the tarmac, though, if and only if they’re taxed as other vehicles are taxed too.
This whole line of argument misses my point that giving workers a share of the benefits of innovation would be better than treating the innovations as the enemy.
We’re talking about uber eats, do you think they will give any worker a share of any benefit? Get real.
There’s a difference between do and should. They should. That requires regulation.
Of course they should, but they won’t. Regulation means an elected representative would have to propose the law, it would have to be approved, then signed into law. Won’t ever happen because of regulatory capture.
Won’t ever happen because of regulatory capture.
And yet a huge body of regulatory law exists.
Companies will only give workers a share of the benefits of innovation if they’re forced to - a goal I’d rather try to achieve than call it impossible. People have taken your attitude about all sorts of real things - worker safety rules, food quality standards, the right to unionize… even the idea that people would obey lines painted on the road was originally scoffed at. And yet we have them. So get real yourself.
You’re very wrong if you think I’m being defeatist because I enjoy it. I’m just jaded after a lifetime of enduring the apathy of everyone around me. If you’re not like me yet and don’t want to lose that spark, keep fighting. I’m just too tired to do it myself. Good luck.
Sorry you’re so burned out, and I hope something comes along to reignite your passion - there’s always that chance.
You blocking bots ona platform has nothing to do with ToS. Blocking a robot is just standing in front of it, it’s not human. You are allowed to stand on a public sidewalk. If it stops moving because you stand in front if it, how is that illegal?
That’s the kind of bland rationalization an asshole would make for blocking your car into a parking space. The difference is only in the details.
the “detail” is the fact one is a human and one is a robot. That’s a pretty big detail if you ask me
You know… I’m surprised that no one has… Done more? I’m surprised hunting these things isn’t a trend…
I imagine that the non-violent sport of ‘Robot-hassling’ will emerge from pioneers like this before long. Tying a rope around it and to a tree will only be the start, with championships and awards for the simplest, cleverist and most-effective. Getting one to lose it will be high-ranking. There’ll need to be a special section for electronic tricks and traps, and another for reality-shifting. Getting one to forget it’s job and help you with gardening would be one fine example.
I wonder what a hand-held stun gun would do to it.
What is the charge? Blocking a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?!
Looking at the replies to your comment… so many people not getting the reference. 🥲
Lol it’s all good. Enough people did that this is one of my top rated comments 😆
Police exist to protect capital, not people.
They protect capital, sure. They also protect all of us from violent thieves, rapists, and psychopaths.
They also protect all of us from violent thieves, rapists, and psychopaths.
Literally no. The real psychopaths are the people who believe this bullshit copaganda.
Cops don’t prevent crime. They have no legal obligation to protect us. Cops supposedly help to “punish” crime (ie. torture people in cages) but even that’s bullshit. Less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions. And anybody who’s ever been robbed can tell you that police don’t do shit.
what about the court system?
oh i get it you’ve never been a victim of crime
no no wait i got it you’re just one of those special people that comes out with stupid one liners
good stuff
I see you know your judo well.
This. Is. Democracy. Manifest!
Aaannnnddd then?
Get your hand off my penis!
no
No and then!
Can I get a shrimp fried rice?
Annnnd theeeeennnn?
NO AND THEN
👀
Disorderly conduct.
i’m sure most of the luddites here have never used the internet to order a food delivery
like never
but the robot was the last straw
There are Waymos that drive through my workplace all night long. Like literally every 10 minutes. They cause problems all the time, as we have semi tractor-trailers trying to dock, and they’ll block their movement and then just sit there waiting. They started putting up cones so they wouldn’t pull through but now all the legitimate traffic has to get out and move them around every time they want to come through.
One time I blocked 3 of them in for several hours by trapping them by putting more cones behind them, such that there was no exit. That was fun.
Robot cones that block the bots but move out of the way for cars would be fun.
Narrator: Little did @Acid_Burn know that his innocent comment would kick off The Great Robot War and subsequent collapse of civilization.
You missed a thorn opportunity for “that”
You missed two thorns! Don’t let the haters get you down, keep doing thorns and let the dweebs that hate it for no reason seethe
Yes; I don’t use þem when I’m quoting or using proper names like, Thomas. Even if I’m making up þe quote. It probably doesn’t make sense to anyone else, but it’s easier for me when deciding to use it or not - I just try to be consistent.
I makes me happy to see tolerance!
Easy: mount that cone on a children’s RC toy car.
Your company needs to charge Waymo a toll for usage of your premises.
Alternatively, get a button-operated rising-arm barrier. All a driver needs to do is push the button to get in or out. Unless they’re an AI that can’t get out of the car, anyway.
Edit: Sometimes I a word.
Alternatively, get a button-operated rising-arm barrier. All a driver needs to do is push the button to get in or out. Unless they’re an AI that can’t get out of the car, anyway.
…and send Waymo the bill for it.
What you do is tell the contractor that WayMo already agreed to pay, repeat until you find one of Trump’s dumbass jobbers and hire him.
This definitely happened.
It’s really not that hard to believe. Waymo will use any available roads to navigate between fares, and it can become especially bad when they’re waiting for fares. Because they don’t just return to a home parking spot and wait between fares. The point is that they want to spread their potential reach (and ensure there are cars nearby regardless of where they’re requested) so they spread out until they need to return to charge/refuel.
They cruise around random backroads and residential areas until a fare requests them. They also avoid U-turns whenever possible, which means they’ll often path through some interesting places just to avoid turning around. They quickly clog residential roads when fares are slow, by all driving in a holding pattern around residential areas that aren’t designed for that kind of through traffic.
Yeah they also have human intervention which kicks most cases far before this could happen but I’m sure this random internet commenter definitely trapped a bunch with cones and held them hostage🤣
Human intervention only automatically kicks in when the car actually thinks it is trapped. Which can easily take a while for larger parking lots.
Also, it’s not a stretch to assume Waymo cuts costs by not having 1:1 coverage of humans to cars and that they triage which cars actually need humans.
👍 definitely happened. In a small internet space you found the edge case. They won’t have video or any evidence but they definitely trapped some Waymo’s
What is so outrageous here?
If you don’t ever do anything, everything becomes unbelievable and outrageous.
Whatever you need to believe that this guy stuck it to the man.
Whatever you need to believe that he didn’t.
Waymo’s have hitl. When you see a Waymo stuck for “hours” that’s the exception that gets blasted across the internet to confirm biases.
They didn’t do any of this. It’s the nerd version of internet tough guy.
You:
I bet you op looked like this while he was definitely trapping cars 🤣.
God you people are gullible.
I don’t care if the story is real or not. In fact, I’m inclined to agree with you that it’s probably fake. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re all over this thread running defense for fucking Waymo, of all corporations
You mean they do hitl? They have hitled? They are hitlers?
I heard hitling is bad.
I found absolutely nothing in their comment hard to believe.
This is the stupidest thing
The temerity!
The little nub on the top is a LIDAR module.
I wonder if an upside down cup will fit over it.
They can be remotely piloted from call centers overseas. So this would be a very temporary hurdle.
Me, with an empty takeout soup bowl: “I’m a job creator!”
Large googly eyes slapped onto the cameras. Using suction cups. Or cheap dollar store Christmas lights powred by two AA lightly wrapped around it and over it’s cameras to blind them.
Both would be non destructive and non damaging.
No
If she was not touching the thing then why didn’t it try and get out of her way? It should not be on the sidewalk in the first place, and should not have right of way.
That’s always one of the tricks these companies pull. They take some communally-owned thing that used to have a clear purpose and start using it for their different for-profit use.
Take sidewalks. They’re surprisingly expensive to build, but they’re built from community tax money so that people walking don’t have to walk on the road. Now Uber is using them as a place where they can drive their robots. Are they paying anything? I assume not. Sidewalks have also become a favourite parking spot for rental scooters. Do the scooter companies pay for that? Of course not. Even when they’re parked well they reduce the space available for walking, and when they’re parked badly they can force pedestrians out into the street.
Ugh the rental scooters. Thankfully I’ve seen this dying down. A more common sight in my city now is parking spaces getting turned into bike rental stations. I’m all for that.
The scooters are so much better though? Just park near where you need to go, not where the bike station is. Just take photos of the poorly parked ones and whoever last parked it gets a fine.
Yeah the scooters are great, it’s the lack of enforcement for proper parking that sucks.
Like they make you take a picture to prove you parked it properly. One time I screwed up and took a picture of only my feet. Nothing happened.
Better only for the person who drops it right where they arrives at their destination. That is almost never also a sensible place for these things to be. What if everyone just got out do their car the second they were in front of the building they want to go to? That would be so much “better” for them!
That is kind of how taxis work though
The taxi doesn’t just get dropped on the curb when you arrive. It leaves to go serve someone else.
Yeah, it sucks when I get out of a taxi and the driver just gets out and leaves their car there.
I don’t need to repeat dark onions response but did you even think for a moment before commenting?
Except you jjust know they are taking audio and visual, and scanning wifi and phone and other freqencies and sending it all back to base, that’s the problem.
Throw them all into the river! Why rent everything we used to own anyway?
Even if I had my own, I wouldn’t carry it across country for a visit of a few days, but I did rent in such a case more than once.
It’s really more about unenforced safety rules, people sometimes drive like crazy and they always do that on the scooters they own, because rental have a speed limit
Rental makes sense for this because not everyone wants to take a scooter back home and charge it
Not the way it’s being done it doesn’t make sense. A locally owned place that had rules against spying on everyone, and sweeping electronics, yes. A silicon valley operation whose purpose is as much collecting data as it is rental fees, is not.
A proper bike system is better though, my city has a city-run bike system with stations on practically every street corner, so it’s much better and just as practical
Ugh, what? The scooters are awesome, and they cut down on car traffic.
No they don’t. They cut down on walking.
Um, no. They cut down on car traffic. Hoooooooly shit you people are unfucking real. I see bitching about car culture on here constantly, but when an urban area has municipal tools for reducing it, you still bitch. God fucking damn.
Oh well that string of profanity really convinced me. Thank you for clearing that up.
Cops will violent attack anyone who threatens capital. It has almost nothing to do with “laws”.
Maybe the robot should be charged for blocking her way
I found myself wondering about this. If you stand blocking the entrance to a building, and won’t move when the police tell you to, I guess I can see them turning that into a disorderly conduct charge. Of course we are solely debating whether blocking a robot is a crime, but their rationale iin court is probably going to be more based around obstructing a place of public accommodation or something like that.
They should’ve given her a warning, the police. To go right to arrest, is a favour that waymo called in to the local policians, probably followed by others donating some cash.
It really is like that, even with prosecuting attorneys that drop charges against the rich, like former manhattan city da with several people, including Weinstein was it? 30k or something donation right after he drops charges. There were several incidents, they didn’t even bother to use intermediaries there.
She did have multiple warnings but she stood true to her rights
ignored “multiple commands”
