Legislation should force all digital marketplaces to allow selling and gifting purchased media without a middleman taking a cut.
Bad take. They’ll give you an install disc and then make you enter an account locked code to access it anyway.
Demand digital rights instead, before a big player goes bust. Because at some point that will happen, and you’ll lose more than a handful of discs.
Fun fact! PlayStation Plus, Xbox Live, and Nintendo Online subscriptions go directly to them and none of that supports the server costs game developers have to pay to host online games. This is why most online games are forced into the games-as-a-service model, which makes zero sense to me as a game developer. It’s also why most indie games do not bother to add online multiplayer support as it’s far to expensive to pay for server hosting, let alone the cost of development.
As long as you still have tens of millions of people pre-ordering GTA6, nothing is going to change. People bitch and whine but they keep eating the slop.
DRM is the issue not physical. No drm means I can just keep replicating my product when physical fails
Removing options is an issue
Yeah that’s my problem with it as well. People keep going “but steam does the same thing” but with steam I actually have the install on my computer, a computer which valve does not control and they cannot take things off me after the fact.
I believe you are thinking of GoG, not Steam.
Yesnt. Steam can absolutely remote remove your library.
They never did and probably won’t do it. But they could
They can take a game off sale but they can’t take something from me that I’ve already downloaded.
In most European countries yes. They can’t legally. But they can technically.
They cannot if you back it up to a folder outside of the steam directory. Provided of course the game doesn’t use Steam’s DRM.
How can they do that? I’m curious
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Damn dude, thanks for the insight
Cannot wait until Sony comes out with a study that shows 100% of gamers ( a small handful of people guaranteed not to care about pjydical media ) don’t want it so they can gaslight tge general public into thinking nobody wants it.
“Gamers push back.” Just like they pushed back against $70 and $80 games by lining up around the block to buy a Switch 2 so they could buy $70 and $80 games to play on it. Like Rockstar will make a mint selling $100 copies of GTA6.
Push back but won’t boycott. Tread on me harder daddy.
This is the song of the world, a ton of angry voices but then the vast majority of them still buy (in both meanings) the thing. People want to be mad but never inconvenienced. They’ll spend so many hours being angry both internally and externally but then still use their vote, be it a political or wallet one, for that specific thing they’re angry about. “I’m mad this costs so much, that it’s so bad, that it doesn’t align with my views but there’s no way in hell I’ll miss out on it”.
Fucking cowards.
I suppose if any game is worth $100 it’ll probably be a game from Rockstar. Personally I’m waiting for reviews since there’s literally no point pre-ordering.
Thank you for providing us an object example lol
Yeah if they aren’t ready we would see GTA 6 flop hard. Personally I’m not getting it until pc release, and even then we’ll see if I have to buy on their shitty launcher.
I hate Nintendo as much as the next guy, but I’m pretty sure they were the last to adopt $70 games. Then you had Mario Kart World at 80, which is indeed dumb. Not as dumb as shitty yearly sports titles being $70.
And it’ll STILL be $80 20 years from now.
Nah, not all of us. When switch 2 came out (and because I wanted a hand held) I looked at it, poked at in the shop and decided to buy a DS instead. $80 vs $650. If I’d been feeling more generous, I would have gotten a Retroid pocket 5 or something. I didn’t need it.
The switch 2 is shiny, but it didn’t fill any niche for me that one of my other rigs couldn’t do (Wii, Wii u, $100 emulation box I built).
“Bigger, better, faster” is a mug’s game. It cannot be won and it’s the lynchpin of capitalism. The way to win is to not play.
Gaming is a luxury good. If the big players are going to go full retard, let them. Let it all burn while you find greener pastures.
This goes for all tech (and luxury goods), IMHO. Do more with less.
Reject the status ladder → identify the actual function → satisfy it with the smallest tool that works → enjoy the absurdity of $650 Switch 2 (and marvel at the cost of Switch 1 increasing in price. Lol no).
My backlog is big enough and I’m old enough that I don’t see a need to buy a new game for a long time.
Fight the establishment by getting kids addicted to old games.
Shit man I’m old and would’ve dropped a good chunk of money on a complete, single-player GTA6 physical disk, at launch.
I might’ve even gone and bought a PS5 as crazy as that sounds. I already have a great PC and haven’t gotten a console in a decade but I’ve gotten so much enjoyment from the franchise I’d feel pretty safe buying.
But the lack of a physical disk might actually be the thing that makes me completely reverse my decision. I tolerate it on PC because there are so many indie games it doesn’t really make sense to have a physical copy every time but with a huge AAA title from a proven money hungry powerhouse like R* it’s completely unacceptable. I want to be able to dig that disc out in 20 years and play forgotten games. I want to take my console out into the woods and play the game completely disconnected from the modern world if it suits me.
I’m fine with digital for convenience. I just don’t want physical to disappear. Having both options is better for everyone.
I would be fine with digital only, but only if there was no DRM.
And alternative stores with alternative servers so I don’t have to buy a subscription for online capabilities and the ability to install whatever software I want… I guess a PC will do just fine.
IDK, second market games are cool.
I mean, yes that would be ideal, but its never going to happen, unfortunately. Even physical media has DRM and has had it for a long time now.
If it was possible to lend/borrow and resale digital media that would solve most of the problems. You could still have DRM that makes sure the game is only installed on a single console at a time and what not.
Another problem would also be that the servers could shut down which would mean you can’t download the game indefinitely. But that is kind of already the case, even with physical media, as a lot of games already require Day 1 patches to be playable. So its a related and also important but somewhat separate issue. I hope Stop Killing Games is successful in that department.
The difference isn’t digital vs physical. Either medium can have DRM. It’s whether you own your copy or not.
Physical DRM like the classic dial-a-pirate is owned by you. You can choose to hand someone a copy of the game and the physical DRM, and they can play it. Nobody can take that right away from you.
Online DRM will always have the flaw of someone being able to take away your rights, for any reason. Thus, you don’t own a copy of the game. Since digital games can’t have physical DRM, the only way to truly own a digital copy of a game is DRM-free.
Will they boycott?
I already did. If i cant find it on PC at a reasonable price the high seas will provide.
I have sold my PS4 after what I felt an unjust price hike for PSN and built a pc, didn’t buy a console since
I quit shortly after the PS3…
Video cards are just so expensive.
Because of fucking idiots with their meme coins and their AI girlfriends. Every day I feel ten years older.
wont this just push people to getting steam/valve
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Yeah the big advantage of disc is Sony can’t randomly take it away. And given the fact that they have literally just done that with a bunch of movies it’s kind of a problem.
It would be trivial to add online only drm with a killswitch to physical media. If that’s the problem, discs aren’t the solution. What we actually need is legal protection for consumers.
I was already planning to abandon Sony even before they shot themselves in the foot (or leg? groin? time will tell I guess)
I bought the PS5 solely to play one specific game, but I still expected to get some other games. And I’ve gotten a few at least: The Finals is amazing, Baldur’s Gate is amazing, Battlefield 6 is great… and that’s about the end of my list.
The one specific game I bought the PS5 for, No Man’s Sky, has tons of stuff you can do with mods and save editing. Same for Baldur’s Gate as far as mods go. The Finals and BF6 are FPS games so no mods, but still… 100% of the games I like could just be played on PC instead, and 50% are significantly better for doing so.
In the last few generations of consoles / handhelds, Sony has:
- Removed the ability to back your data up via USB as of PS5 (ostensibly because scary ol’ North Korea hacked them, but really because they want to force you to buy PS+)
- Removed the ability to use custom themes as of PS4
- Removed the ability to play online for free as of PS4
- Removed the ability to set a background for your console ffs as of PS5, then gave us like 10% of that back by letting you set a background specifically and only for the screen you see after the console starts
- Jacked up PS+ prices repeatedly and offered like 99% games that I never play again (granted I’m a very picky gamer but still. Shoutout to Jurassic World and some Resident Evils tho)
There’s so many reasons to ditch them even separately from the disc drama
Ahh yes, steam renowned for its physical media.
Hopefully it just keeps them using old consoles and punishing them by not buying the digital games.
But we all know everyone will just roll over.
The problem isn’t digital the problem is digital only.
Obviously they mean that in a digital-only world, consoles are not worth it and gamers should just switch to PC.
The opposite of “digital” is “analogue”. Disks are just as digital as data downloaded from the internet.
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Why is it ok for PC to be all digital? I don’t remember the last time I’ve even seen a physical version of a PC game. Everything is through steam, While console it’s not ok? I can’t remember the last time I purchased a disc version for xbox.
Like I used to have the physical versions of Deadpool and both marvel ultimate alliances but I lost the discs in a move I wish I could purchase them digitally again but that’s about the only downside I’ve encountered with digital only is some license rights gets a revoked
I’ve been thinking about this since the announcement from Sony. I see alot of friends complaining when I fully know they have massive steam libraries and no optical drives.
And I think it comes down too we have Steam. Steam is run by Valve a non public company with no shareholders. And Valve not only says but does. They keep things open and accessible. Game removed from Steam, that’s file you can still download it and play. Things like GoG where you can get an offline installer. And we can pirate probably fits in There some where
But console you only have the maker and not a single one can be trusted. Sony removed movies and TV shows a couple times at this point.
And if you try to modify your console, they’ll fuck your shit up.
You dint need optical drives specifically. Gog style drm free zip is better than a disc. If you put it on a thumb drive it’s physical.
Movie licensing is legally different to running a game platform. Are there any examples of games being removed from people’s libraries?
PT immediately comes to mind.
There have been others that I don’t remember the names of offhand.
A few things.
One is that steam frequently has actually cheap games more readily than the console digital stores.
Another is that if I’m buying a digital entitlement anyway, I’ll go with the ecosystem with the greatest track record for long term compatibility. A game purchased 20 years ago on steam is still generally playable in brand new system. A PlayStation game purchased then is not playable on a new Sony system. It is in fact only playable on PC through emulation, so PCs have been covering for console incompatibly.
Once upon a time, consoles brought some unique values. Easy to plug into TVs, consistent gamepad experience, and just turn on and play.
Nowadays PC operating systems and console operating systems act the same, tv output is just HDMI, gaming controllers are well supported on PCs… The last reason to bother with the console gaming was the physical media. So while sure, they can go digital only, but then why bother with a console at all? They’ve already lost every other advantage.
Then there’s the fact that there may be 2 computers left out there with any type of disc ROM device.
Great points you make, I hope more people understand.
I only just removed (and saved) by bluray drive because I moved HW into a new case w/o a 5.25” bay. Still have a USB disc drive when needed and can always run a sata out the side temporarily.
I applaud you, and I do mean that. I have a BR player attached to the family room TV at home and so many movoes, but absolutely no way to read any type of data disk.
I do have a LOT of software DVDs from yesteryear stored somewhere (not all of them ‘legally obtained’), so maybe I should get one of those external BD-ROM USB devices.
They aren’t closed ecosystems to the extent that consoles are. PC gaming isn’t just Steam, and you’re generally free to do what you’d like with the files once they’re on your computer.
You can chase sales, modify and fix games, play online without a subscription, use your preferred controller, buy DRM free (or bypass DRM if you so choose), share and revive old games, etc.
I doubt I’ve covered everything, and (respectfully) I’m genuinely surprised that so many people still ask this question.
I’d be more fine with it if it translated to lower prices for the consumer but I have doubts the shareholders will allow for even the tiniest hit to their profit margins.
PC hardware is not vendor controlled. They can’t delete your game because sales of the sequel are low or a license agreement ran out. Buying is owning on a pc where the game can be backed up, reinstalled on new machine etc. without any need for the agreement or permission of the publisher. You bought it. Can’t do any of that on console. Cant back up to your own systems, cant copy and if the console vendor decides to withdraw it from your library and delete from your device, you cant stop them (short of never connecting the device to the internet again) Historically console physical media has had a good second hand market, no such thing without physical media.
You’ll hand your money over, own nothing and have no recourse.
The arguments are all over the place but in quick. You can’t resell digital games. Also PC is an open platform, Xbox and Playstation are not. Steam might feel like a monopoly but they have to keep in mind the competitors like Epic and can’t rip you off too much.
Just looked at my physical games. The last game I possibly purchased was either red dead redemption 2 or halo mcc.
Thinking back to PC the last physical game I purchased was unreal tournament 2003.
Speaking of Unreal really should make a comeback. Also a CnC red alert 4
I really wish it would. Epic was working on a new one and then canned it when fortnite took off.
I remember being pissed off when I bought The Orange Box and it only came with a key I could enter in some platform called Steam.
It is also impossible to store a lot of these games on CDs because of the size. That said, as someone else said, the companies that make these consoles have shown they will screw over consumers any chance they get, so at some level I get it. But I am mostly a PC gamer and most of my library is old games I emulate anyways.
I’m not sure there’s a great argument for why it’s different that’s not just vibes but the case for owning a console is getting smaller.
A console is basically a single purpose computer. The reasons to own one are that they’re cheaper, plug and play, you can buy and trade physical games, and the exclusive games. Seems like they’re converging towards PCs to the point that the only real benefit next gen will be ease of use and exclusives. And both of those reasons are fragile. Steam has pretty much solved the barriers to getting games running.
Nintendo figured out how to sell consoles based on exclusives but I don’t know that Sony will be able to make the transition. Third party developers will just go elsewhere if Sony can’t sell the hardware. As a child of the 80s/90s, I like the excitement around consoles. The hardware is cool, having a shelf of games is fun, I like going to GameStop and trading in old games and finding weird used games to buy. But the kids now don’t have that nostalgia. They have a Nintendo Switch and a gaming PC.
Maybe I don’t understand the vision but it seems like Xbox tried the whole “it’s just a computer! Play on your computer too!” and people said “good idea, I don’t even need an Xbox.” I need a computer to do computer things but I don’t really need a second computer that doesn’t do computer things besides games. Maybe I’d consider if I could install Linux on the PlayStation 6.
But I think a lot of the backlash is from people who like to buy consoles and remember how fun it was to own an N64 or PS1. Are consoles fun anymore? It feels like they get a bit worse every generation. Maybe the master plan is to ruin the business so they get out of making the PS 9 with the butterflies that fly in your ear, if anyone remembers those commercials.
The reasons to own one are that they’re cheaper, plug and play, you can buy and trade physical games, and the exclusive games
The reason I’d buy another console is because of the controller environment.
I enjoy shooting games. I enjoy sitting on my couch.
Yet if I play on my PC with a controller it’s going to be an awful experience.
I don’t want to sit at my desk with proper posture.
I just want to relax and have fun. Console gives me that.
I use to be big into Overwatch. The difference between PC and Console is huge in that game, the whole vibe of the game changes. Personally I enjoy the chaotic nature of less precise aiming. Creates interesting scenarios where you have to adapt and overcome. I’d hate it if every game was “I hope our sniper can point and click their sniper first”
I don’t really game anymore after having almost a 40 year run. However, I used to regularly recommend going digital only up to several years ago. Then, store delisting started becoming more common and affecting games I previously played, so I completely gave up consoles and retracted all my recommendations.
I wish I could still buy physical PC games. It took me a god damn month to download Doom 2016.
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Maybe it’s ok, because it is not “Everything is through steam”. I have digital copies from different stores. It’s basically the same fight against closed platforms in the mobile ecosystems. And I am really curious whether the EU will force Sony to open up their platform as well.
Steam on pc shows that gamers can be okay with not having physical media - as long as they trust the vendor that the thing they pay for actually means a persistent access to the game.
Unfortunately this move also gives much more power to the vendor. Once he decides to withdraw access to the player, the ownership of the paid-for thing becomes useless (until a lawsuit were to be filed and won).
Physical media without mandatory internet servers (like in pre-internet consoles) means true ownership - after buying a game, the vendor has no longer any control.
The key point to me is not directly the difference between physical disk or cloud download, but between truly offline versus online-required games (or goods in general).
PC gaming all digital is ok because it’s not a closed ecosystem. I can install whatever platform I want, and buy games. And there are huge sales.
Also there are drm free shops like gog, a huge community with emulators, mods, and in the need pirated copies of the games I bought.
Trust is one thing, but monopolized market is another.
edit: today I found the List of DRM-free games that has many games that DRM free from many PC platforms (1867 games in Steam and 604 in Epic). Meaning that you can launch an installed game directly from the .exe and even make a zip the installed game as backup.
PC gaming all digital is ok because it’s not a closed ecosystem
This is the crux of the issue. I have a few games in my library that have been de-listed from the store but my access to those games is unaffected and I can still install and play them, and it’s a problem that Sony’s approach isn’t analogous to this.
Leave PCs out of this console nonsense. On PC you can write whatever you want to whatever media you want by yourself, without kissing some Nintendo-Sony ass.
For now, yes. Microsoft is already well on it’s way to a closed ecosystem where you’ll only be able to run signed software on “your” PC.
Haven’t used anything Microsoft in a decade but I do remember that there were some certificates for executables… Are they mandatory nowadays?
PC gamers accepted the inability to sell and loan games and to have extensive DRM on a large number of games. The console players are the last holds against this anti consumer practice. Just because PCs has multiple stores it doesn’t change the fact Steam is a near monopoly and while its relatively consumer friendly we still don’t own games on it, they can not be passed to others in any way legally. People have a weird love for Steam but the basic facts are the same, it uses DRM, you can’t sell or loan games and you have a licence and don’t own them, you can’t pass them to someone else in a will. Steam is pretty anti consumer on the big items here compared to disks on the consoles.
PC gamers haven’t pushed back as hard because the basic facts are NOT the same. The ecosystem is entirely different. I’m not interested in defending Steam or its use of DRM, but the fact that something is illegal doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Piracy is one of the big reasons PC gamers aren’t nearly as affected by the lack of physical media being sold: you just make it yourself. I’ve even pirated games I already own just because it’s the easiest way to have an unmodded install alongside a heavily modded one.
But the lack of options for console gamers doesn’t stop there. Not only are the hardware and software environments completely locked down, but demographically, a much greater number of console buyers are going to be those with bad or no internet. They can’t just download whatever from wherever. If they lose the discs, they may lose access entirely.
People pirate a game they own just to not have the launcher or unskipable opening movie.
Steam voluntarily let you have family sharing, without a monthly fee, so that removed the biggest problem without having actual lending.
Folks like me love Steam because I have a huge backlog, and don’t care if I play the latest thing as soon as it comes out. Combine that with their sales every few months let me pick up older games at a steep discount, without having to deal with a Gamestop.
PC gamers accepted the inability to sell and loan games and to have extensive DRM on a large number of games.
And one of the reasons for that is that the DRM can be removed from a large number of games. 🏴☠️
In practice doesnt everything basically get leaked/mass disseminated anyway regardless of the vendor/developers anti-consumer shit or best legal efforts/public meddling?
