https://zirk.us/@ShaulaEvans/115773818039339000
this is what really sets leftists apart from liberals imo.
liberals like to decorate themselves with the nimbus of morality but when it comes to stepping up to fascism and protesting even if it’s not like a fun parade but serious and uncomfortable. Or just if the weather is bad.
Or when it comes to being self critical about your own learned patterns of behavior and thinking… they are nowhere to be seen, not to be relied on and it does real damage, as we can see.
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“What I do when no one’s watching, when it’s hard?” 👀
My value is -6942067
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I mean, are they? When I think of centrists I see people who are constantly saying “I want to do this great thing and all but…” right before spouting some feels-based economic bullshit for why we shouldn’t take care of others.
I live in Canada where we have a left, a center, and a right. The left party was thrown in the bin by voters so that they could “strategically” vote for the centrists in order to avoid the far-right. Now we have a party that is pouring money into private business and gutting our environment for some short-term gains but because they don’t overtly hate gay people somehow that’s ok. They lied to us about getting a better voting specifically because they are the only party that benefits from FPTP here and then we just let them get away with it.
Centrists are worse than conservatives, in my opinion and in the context of the longterm, because the only thing they ever genuinely succeed at on their own is massively delaying progress and causing further shifts toward to the right. They’re worthless idiots at best and modt of the time are straight-up malicious liars who want the image of a progressive without doing anything truly positive.
Fuck “centrists”; they’re just conservatives who are too chicken-shit to say it outloud.
While I agree with the rest, “your values are who you are” sounds very reductive. We are not one single aspect, not just our values, or thoughts, or emotions, or actions, but the dynamic system of them all.
not everyone can afford to have their actions match their values aye
Your values are who you are when you get to think about what you want to be. They are what you’re proud of, and they are what allow you to look upon your actions positively. Your values and principles are the foundation everything else is built on.
People will certainly judge your actions, and that’s fair for them to do much of the time, but if your actions and your values are so disconnected that the difference comes into play so strongly then you might need to read the post over a few more times.
Your values and principles are the foundation everything else is built on.
I would say our life experiences are the foundation that our values are then developed on. People in different circumstances will likely end up with different values (or even if broadly the same values, they will prioritise them differently).
People will certainly judge your actions, and that’s fair for them to do much of the time, but if your actions and your values are so disconnected that the difference comes into play so strongly then you might need to read the post over a few more times.
I wasn’t commenting because of my personal experiences, but because I’ve read about life stories of others where they had to act in ways that went contrary to their values. Like when they are stuck in an abusive family or relationship dynamic, or in a job where they have to act unethically to be able to afford housing and food. During the pandemic I’ve come across the concept of moral injury which seems to refer to similar situations.
I wish reading platitudes could make me feel superior to others
I have the perfect quote for you:
this is what really sets leftists apart from liberals imo.
Obviously I am making a bit of a joke on TOs cost here. Should be no problem for TO after making such broad statements.
IO*
That’s not IO
What? It’s a common saying.
You’re on a giant fucking high horse.
I feel like you’d have to be on a giant to fuck a giraffe but I have no practical experience
That’s what sets leftists apart from liberals.
We’ve got too many people thinking they live in a fucking movie
It’s just like that one movie
Lot of wanking going on here. Is this a fetish?
It’s social media, so of course they’re wanking/rubbing. Don’t kink-shame. 😄
I don’t agree with the last bit. What you do is what you are. But the rest is good.
To quote Chidi from the good place:
Well, principles aren’t principles when you pick and choose when you’re going to follow them.
It is literally saying that your values are what you do even when no one is watching, meaning not picking and choosing/
If you need to clear your nose out, then when other people aren’t watching you might well be picking …
Or wiping my ass, which I don’t do in front of other people either. It isn’t referring to every literal thing we do.
The context is about whether someone does the right thing when not being watched. As on their virtues aren’t just performative.
I was specifically making a wordplay joke about the word “picking” … never mind.
It doesn’t really work in the context as written, but now I see what you are going for. If you had gone with ‘…choosing to be picking’ I probably would have caught it.
Ok but what about people with performative virtues who place themselves in situations where they’re expected to perform virtuously? For instance, things like alchoholics anonymous or Mike Johnson’s Covenent Eyes app? ( https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/11/01/mike-johnson-son-abstinence-partners/ )
I’m reading it as your values determine what you do, what you do determines who you are
I miss mister Adagonye!
I feel always watched so it stays the same.
Cool strawman. Liberalism was the original leftism (see the French revolutionary National Assembly), and modern liberalism is leftist.
The many varieties of liberalism share a core liberal philosophy of morally absolute concepts:
- universal individual rights & liberties
- consent of the governed (governments exist for the people who have a right to change & replace them, & authority is legitimate only when it protects those liberties)
- political & legal equality.
To reject general liberalism, you’d have to reject that morally all individuals are categorically equal with the same universal individual rights & liberties, or that they should have political & legal equality, or that authority ought to protect those universal individual liberties & that people ought to be able to change & replace their government. It’s difficult to imagine any sensible person disagreeing with these humble ideas. If you do, then please call out your specific objection.
So, what does it mean you set “leftists apart from liberals”? You’re claiming leftists are illiberal. An illiberal leftist by definition must reject general liberalism: they think people are fundamentally unequal, or they aren’t entitled to political & legal equality, or authority ought to be able to abuse universal individual liberties, or people shouldn’t be able to change & replace their government. This is flat out immoral & contradictory: instead of eliminating social hierarchies, it asserts a hierarchy of uncontrolled government power/authority to abuse individual liberties ought to be permitted. Such uncontrolled authority is necessary for left-wing authoritarianism.
So, no, by claiming authority should have limits to prohibit the abuse of universal rights & liberties that individuals inherently have, liberalism sets a firm moral boundary that illiberals willingly violate. Only adherents to a deluded philosophy would convince themselves that authorizing government abuses is somehow morally superior. Leftists don’t claim morality by rejecting it, only by building on it, and that means accepting general liberalism: leftists can & should be liberal.
Having values to stand for despite inconvenience requires at least knowing them. If they’re not consistent & coherent, then you haven’t figured them out. By rejecting the entire philosophy of liberalism & the humanism & Enlightenment ideals that underpin it yet still claiming morality, I doubt you’ve figured anything out.
’ Progressive except Palestine"
Classic liberals.
Like claiming to be against ICE but then not even being slightly inconveniensed to not support companies that support them.
Like how France Italy and Greece didn’t arrest Netanyahu when he flew over their airspace.
They don’t really believe in upholding the international law
Sometimes caring about your own comes first. I know, shocking, right? Imagine the drama this would have caused, Trump would invoke military threats to free Netanyahu. It’s just not worth the conflict and you know he will walk away anyway.
Did you read the post you’re commenting on?
These countries are part of NATO.
NATO is an alliance against external threats. We’re talking about internal conflicts. Did you miss the part where Trump threatened Canada and Denmark, both being NATO members?
Article 5 can be invoked if one NATO member attacks another.
That’s literally false, go and read article 5. It explicitly says external threats, not internal. In this case, Article 1 applies, which is actually about internal conflicts., but it simply says that any conflicts should be resolved peacefully, not that other members have any obligation to get involved.
Article 5 doesn’t mention internal or external threats https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/collective-defence-and-article-5
Because other articles already clarified that. If one law says “drinking is illegal”, another law does not need to say “drinking while being with friends is illegal”
It normally goes 1…2…3…, so if 1 already says something, 5 does not need to repeat something about being exclusively external.
I’m one of those leftists. Or rather socialists if we are going to get theoretical about it.
I am here to tell you that you are wrong. Socialists and liberals even share values. Where we break is not on indiviual morality. It is on principles of universial equality. But most importantly socialists see structural causes for inequality. And collective action as the only way out of it.
While worldview have a tendency to govern individual action, so does socio-economic situation and background and a lot of lesser factors.
Ideology or even organisation doesn’t make individuals act less shitty, hopefully esducation does.
Hey uh show of hands:
How many people have actually worked at something like a homeless shelter, non profit assisting some kind of class or classes of disadvantaged individuals?
How many people here actually just give cash to homeless people when they ask for it, which is the most efficient and effective way to help them?
How many of you have actually given a homeless person a place to stay, or maybe just park their car, whatever, with conditions and time limits of course, but to try and actually give them some kind of stability, at least for a bit?
How many people have organized or joined a local union, tenants union, worked for a tenants rights organization, mutual aid group, etc?
How many of you even help out your neighbors with things from time to time, or even talk to them?
Help drive them to some doctor appointment or grocery trip, do a carpool?
Howabout supporting or organizing some kind of local co-op, that actually gives voting rights as to business decisions, to members, in some capacity?
Those, those are the kinds of things that you would be doing if you actually acted out the virtues of being a leftist.
I’ve unironically met slum lords who’ve done more praxis by at least offering people somewhere to live, little to no questions asked, for an affordable price, than most self-described leftists I encounter.
Please, please don’t ever mistake some kind of pristinely articulated, immaculate worldview, for actually doing anything useful in terms of being the change you want to see in the world.
I’ve unironically met slum lords who’ve done more praxis… than most self-described leftists I encounter.
This is wild to me, bc I’ve never met a leftist who doesn’t do several of the things you listed. Where are you encountering these self-described leftists? How do you know that they aren’t doing praxis?
Mostly Seattle.
How do I know?
They were my friends, and their friends of my friends, untill they started giving me shit for… actually doing something like half the things I listed out above.
They were more interested in their IG profiles and Twitter reputations, whole lot of rainbow flavored idpol.
I was being ‘unrealistic’ and ‘ridiculous’ by actually doing things. I’d ask what they were doing, and well that question was rude, actually.
See, anybody can call themselves a leftist, make all the mouth noises, use it as a way to be smug and superior, and just… not actually be one.
I’m not saying ‘all leftists are fake untill they personally prove otherwise to me.’
That indeed would be a rather silly standard.
Thats why I asked … questions, and didn’t make much of a statement beyond the actual point of this original post; your values are exemplified bynwhat you do, talk is cheap.
Maybe I’ve just had a bad run of fake friends comapred to most?
My personal experience isn’t exactly a statistically valid unbiased survey, but it is my experience.
Honestly, Seattle really is full of holier-than-thou assholes who want to think they’re farther left than they are.
I’ve run into a wide variety, starting at the “I’m a leftist, but ecofascism is kinda cool” kind, to “I know you’re homeless, but you’re white, so that makes you more privileged than me, a POC landlord”, and running all the way up to “Eugenics is okay, but I have a karl marx shirt and think I’m one of the vanguard” types.
It absolutely turned into crabs in a bucket when I got a job in palliative care for developmentally disabled elders, and it’s part of why I burnt out so bad and tried to kill myself.
Sorry to hear you tried to kill yourself, glad to see you failed.
Yeah, I used to be the co lead of the data and IT department at Mary’s Place.
Then a series of ludicrous events caused by my own family made me homeless.
Absolutely no one cared, either that I made my living by trying to help the poor, at scale, or that I joined their ranks, not any of my friends, my extended family, nor my own former employer.
Not exactly a suicide attempt, but goddamn if a year or two with all the fentanyl addicts didn’t nearly kill me, I’m still recovering from all the physical injuries that caused me, 2 years on from it.
Fuck Seattle, its exactly as you say, everyone is unimaginably absurd in their own personal victim / moral superiority mindsets, and they’re also delusional when it comes to thinking that some policy they support is going to do anything like what they think it will.
Leftism is just a trend in Seattle these days, almost everyone is actually just a corpo or a nepo baby of some kind, cosplaying a leftist with all the pretentious meta/double irony of wearing a designer Che Guevera t-shirt, which is actually cool and proletarian, but I guess you just wouldn’t get it.
I swear, if I run into one more hipster that tries to mansplain feminism to me…
Anecdotally but you’re not wrong. Everyone talks a talk not many do. That’s irrespective of political beliefs.
Yep, completely correct.
Another way you could phrase the same idea is:
There does not exist a philosophy or worldview that one can simply profess to adhere to, which makes one de facto immune to being a hypocrite.
Or maybe, more succinctly:
You are not immune to performative virtue signalling.
As someone who has reached various stages of self-congruence in their life (most recently this month) more people would benefit from understanding that deep down we are all hypocrits in some way or another. That does not make us bad people, but ignoring it prevents us from growing.
Thats a very good way of looking at it.
‘You’ are not a model kit, that is just, fully assembled at some point, with the right modules, no room left for improvement.
‘You’ are a process, a river that flows, a path that is walked.
