Joe

https://www.britannica.com/topic/state-capitalism is the traditional definition, which I think fits pretty well.

A little rude, no?

Capitalism can and does exist outside of capitalist states (China being an example of this)…this is obviously a matter of differing definitions. That’s OK, but I’d suggest some links to formal definitions. Perhaps there’s a wiki somewhere?

edit: I think nazi germany’s economy fits the term command capitalism better than state capitalism.

You might have to provide your definitions…

Markets are the coordination mechanism, while the ownership structure is clearly capitalist in nature, because a huge amount of capital in China is privately owned. And yes, I am aware many prefer to call their brand of state capitalism “socialist market economy” instead.

That the state owns significant amounts (and the majority in key sectors) is a good thing.

Not a goal? Economic equality does seem to be a goal of China’s socialism… Common prosperity, with a reduction of extreme inequality as one of the key tenets.

That china is a socialist state is not in question.

We’re talking about its economic system, and I believe “state capitalism” is the right description.

That most of its major industries are state controlled and the biggest firms are SOEs doesn’t change this.

As a side note: There is still a lot of private capital slushing around in China, and many USD-millionaires. There’s still significant inequality. They still have work to do, but that doesn’t detract from what they have achieved.

It’s a market economy too, of course, but it is capitalist because of the private capital in business. That the state also has representatives in large companies plus is often a minor investor doesn’t remove the capitalist aspect. In other countries you sometimes see unions and workers councils, backed by laws and courts serving similar roles to protect workers and limit excesses in large corporations. China has the ability to refocus its economic policies and priorities far more directly, which is quite cool when you think about the challenges humanity faces. I hope it can stay on a peaceful path.

If 90% of the population really support the government (hopefully without much deception necessary, but perhaps not so important), and the 10% aren’t being persecuted, then that’s wonderful.

Talking about china? I’d probably classify china as a socialist authoritarian state with its own brand of state capitalism. That they have feared revolution, suppress protests and simultaneously try to be seen as fair and just has probably been a good thing for citizens … unfortunately, the masses are increasingly easy to control, and incentives for good & responsive governance will likely change as a result.

The difference is that Ukraine has had several elections and major party changes since their independence. China has one party (different approach to checks and balances), and putin’s russia has only ever had one winning party (rigged elections, real opposition is arrested, poisoned, killed or all of the above).

Russia is like an ex you just can’t get rid of, slashing tyres, going through your trash, killing your pets and threatening any new potential partners.

You just might be right there. The road to hell and all that.

Otoh, we are living in a world where the rich and powerful have extraordinary influence over our lives through asymmetric application of power, technology and knowledge… we are just pawns/players in systems, and if a system fails us, we might not have any recourse. It’s one reason I value the ability to “vote with my feet” (thanks to international agreements and norms, plus my extraordinary good luck of having a strong passport, decent education and supportive family). If you are stuck in a shitty system, your options might be limited and your readiness to accept extremism and its risks will likely be higher.

Hiya Flying. It’s a joke with a grain of truth. Some vocal (and often well spoken) voices there see russia as a lesser evil than the US and its allies, but imho they go overboard and would rather see and forgive/justify/support russian aggression and its deadly consequences than seek peaceful paths to a more just world.

I wanted a 3d printer too…

This is impressive energy for a position that still hasn’t crossed the non-sequitur gap. 🤣

You are falling back to that lie? In short: Yes, ukraine had and surely still has some neonazis, but the far right parties barely make a dent. So no, they are not the government. You are starting to go around in circles. Perhaps you should take a seat.

DPR and LHR are the result of the first russian invasion, and no fair elections were possible. They were in violation of the minsk agreements, had ad-hoc voter lists, the election bodies were created by armed groups, and there was no judiciary or electoral oversight. In short: they were illegitimate and the result was almost certainly predetermined.

He went against what the people wanted, and the platform upon which he was elected, and protests ensued. Killings, more protests, lost political and police support, and he ran away with his tail between his legs to mama russia. He abandoned office, and lost his position for it. New elections, new chance. Except for russia. Yawn.

Someone else recently said it better, but here I go: Russia brought war and death and genocide to Ukraine starting in 2014, when there was generally peaceful civilian life and normal political discourse beforehand.

Ukranians quite consistently voted for EU integration and moving away from russia’s sphere of influence… they wanted it, and they did not want russia. No guns necessary, just an increasingly well educated and inspired population. Russia sent guns instead.

Mostly just people who believe that the path to a better world is aligned with whitewashing russia’s acts of aggression.

There’s plenty of good causes in this world, and plenty of ways to support them. Supporting a genocidal war by russia just because they are not the US’s doesn’t move the needle.

Nothing wrong with being a communist. Not my suspicion.

You dump irrelevant links and make non-sequitir arguments. When challenged, you dump more links and make more non-sequitir arguments. It seems to be your MO, and it (along with the huge number of comments) makes me suspicious of your motives.

Your comment history is open to all.

(edit: OP edited his post to remove a copy & paste link dump)

Removed by mod

Billionaires were nearly non-existent when he started, and only went up for a long time under him (*exchange rates play a role here, if we talk USD) until economic hard times, where the numbers sunk… I’m not giving Xi that.

Its naval neighbours will disagree with you on assertiveness, but I can’t dispute the US, although I wouldn’t call it an empire, rather a superpower with long and tawdry history of abusing its position. And now, trump is leading it into a death spiral, making it far less predictable and more dangerous.

In times of chaos, it’s not the altruists who are out in front, but those who act fast and decisively. It’s likely going to be a shitshow.