My head-cannon of the differences
US Socialist (social democrat) - Busses should be free for everyone.
US Liberal - Free bus passes only for poor people
US Right-wing - Let the free-market decide and somehow only allow US citizens to ride busses.
Every time i hear an American say anything about social democrat they are just describing a normal liberal policy.
The free market will decide it’s actually more profitable to shut down bus service entirely and pivot to helping ICE transport bus loads of “illegal immigrants”.
Lowkey yikes. I don’t want to associate myself with either graphic
Neither capitalist nor anti capitalist, but some secret third thing
(the secret third thing being fascism)
So, capitalism too
Why not?
Because the Soviets were assholes. I didn’t realize that would be controversial. I wish folks wouldn’t restrict the concept of anti-capitalism to the ussr. Raised fist? Red and black?
You’re on a site where the majority of users are Marxists right now, we’re pretty big fans of the soviet union. It wasn’t some utopia, but it was incredibly progressive for its time. Life expectancy doubled, literacy rates tripled, healthcare and education were free and high quality, housing was free or low cost, wages increased and working hours lowered, and society was democratized. Anti-capitalism isn’t restricted to Marxism-Leninism nor to the USSR specifically, but over here we uphold actually existing socialism.
Consider giving Blackshirts and Reds and This Soviet World a read, or check out the intro ML reading list I made.
Civil and Fair, so thanks. I’ll also pay more attention to the instance in the future if only to not be so baffled. Even if folks consider the Soviets progressive for the time, my 2 cents is that tying modern anticapitalism to the realities of USSR, especially Stalinism, does a disservice to progressive movements and even Marxism. But as you say, it’s a minority opinion, so I’ll accept my downvotes. Thanks again
Marxism-Leninism has been used by billions of people around the world for the purpose of liberating the working classes. I think you should do more research before saying such things.
What assholes, liberating millions of feudal peasants and modernizing an entire country and eliminating hunger and poverty and spreading literacy and giving women rights and revolutionizing agriculture and medicine and defeating the nazis and inventing space travel and supporting liberation movements around the world. What absolute pricks.
Edit: just saw you lower down being relatively chill
I was going to send a DM to cowbee, but it may be worth knowng for others. I’m a bit older and may be a “normie” leftist with moderate anti-cap views and have unexamined prejudices about the USSR. I liked what I read from Lenin/Marx (one work each, i know!) but don’t like the reality of what I know of Stalin so don’t want that association. After reading some more, I’ll reexamine the USSR prejudices. So thanks to cowbee and folks who didn’t assume malice
Great on you for owning up! If you want to learn more about Stalin specifically, Domenico Losurdo’s Stalin: The History and Critique of a Black Legend is one of the best contextualizations of Stalin to date. Losurdo doesn’t make him out to be a saint nor an exceptional Hitler-like demon, but instead correctly places him in his historical context using western sources. Though, of course, it’s a disservice to the millions of soviets to reduce the achievements of the soviet union purely to Stalin.
Technically you can be an anticapitalist and still not a leftist. You could be one of those weirdo turbo conservative monarchists.
It’s not just weird, it’s materially impossible. History doesnt move according to big ideas exclusively, the main driver of history is materialism. Feudalism gave way to capitalism not because someone conceptualized capitalism and made it become real, but because the historical development of feudalism led to the primitive accumulation process of capital, the progressive appearance of a bourgeois class, and this was accelerated by western imperialism and the exploitation of resources in the global south by European powers.
Once the accumulation of capital had taken place and the main economic driver of the economy had become capitalism, it was impossible to return to feudalism, capitalism became a historical necessity. A return to feudalism is simply unfeasible.
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imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism
Imperialism has changed quite a bit from Lenin, such as the current development of one large empire and several vassal states under it benefitting from imperialism. Lenin’s work is actually best translated as “current highest,” not “highest.” Economists like Cheng Enfu have developed theories of Neoimperialism, and Nkrumah with Neocolonialism.
I second this. I enjoyed reading Lenin’s Imperialism very much, but it also felt very dated (as it should, it’s well over 100 years old now). I can’t help but think that if Lenin were alive today, he’d agree. That doesn’t mean it’s not an incredibly important work that we can’t draw from today, but we should also understand how the world has changed since.
I haven’t read John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century yet, but I’ve heard it’s a very good update.
Yep, Marxist-Leninists have been advancing our theory beyond Lenin. What Lenin laid out is still foundational for analyzing the imperialism of today, but we are no longer in the age of competing empires, but a dying mega-empire and the rise of the global south.
I dont currently see how the book can seem dated. I laughed when I read it a week ago how shockingly current it is. Like the fact that international banking is basically the mafia. The imf is like the number one evidence for it.
It’s not that it’s dated into being no longer accurate, it’s that conditions have changed since it was current. Marx didn’t live to see the same heights of imperialism Lenin saw. Lenin did not live to see the consolidation of all competing imperialist powers into one hegemon and several vassals. Lenin is critical and relevant to this day, but we also need to look at how imperialism has advanced.
Agreed. I might have misunderstood. I think black shirts and reds as well as washington bullets are pretty spot on in that regard.
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We love gross generalizations. Most people I meet just don’t really think about it in those terms. I’d say it’s probably more accurate to describe liberal voters as not being anti-capitalist
Now a liberal politician? Yeah 100% pro capitalism
not being anti-capitalist
Ok, this is the “I’m anti-antifa” bullshit of the right wing.
there are multiple varying definitions of liberal depending on the time, location, and context reddit thread discussing this
edit: i like getting downvotes for attempting to add nuance, i’m not even a liberal (by any definition), i’m a socialist anarchist
Yes, but the above one is the most consistent and historically correct that would cut down all those discussions.
